Author Topic: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010  (Read 8069 times)

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Offline pezstar

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Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« on: August 17, 2010, 06:40:10 AM »
Session Start: Tue Aug 17 02:41:57 2010
Session Ident: #WestSideConnection
03[02:41] * Now talking in #WestSideConnection
04[02:42] <&Citizenkane> pezstar.
[02:42] <&Citizenkane> I'm gonna make this very clear
04[02:42] <&Caliph> hi pezstar
[02:42] <&Caliph> thanks for coming
[02:42] <&Citizenkane> Rattling \m/'s cage will not get you anywhere. We defended \m/ against polar bears, I'm perfectly happy to defend \m/ from tigers
[02:42] <&Citizenkane> I'll use my same rifle gun
[02:43] <&Citizenkane> if you wanted to protect GGA, you should have got their first tbh
01[02:44] <pezstar> I'm sorry, who are you?
01[02:44] <pezstar> Are you a member of \m/?
[02:44] <&Citizenkane> You know who I am.
01[02:44] <pezstar> No, I really don't.
01[02:44] <pezstar> I can look it up, if you'd like.
[02:44] <&Citizenkane> I'm from PC.
01[02:44] <pezstar> Thank you.
[02:44] <&Caliph> so
04[02:45] <&Caliph> pezstar, you told me your protection from GGA is over
01[02:45] <pezstar> We rattled the cage and they cancelled their protection. So we cancelled ours. I'm not really sure what your point is.
01[02:45] <pezstar> Yes.
[02:45] <&Caliph> ok
[02:45] <&The_Chief> you're pushing us and you know it
01[02:45] <pezstar> Yes. We did push you. And we absolutely knew it.
[02:45] <&Caliph> well
01[02:45] <pezstar> And it worked.
[02:45] <&The_Chief> not that
[02:46] <&Citizenkane> At the end of the day STA's aggression against \m/ and separately PC has -not- gone unnoticed.
01[02:47] <pezstar> If you'd like to view it as aggression against \m/, be our guests. He threatened our member. I informed The_Chief that we were going to attack him. He said he knew and that he left. So we did it.
[02:47] <&Citizenkane> There is an ope nattack against \m/ from STA.
[02:47] <&Citizenkane> I'd call that agression, wouldnt you?
[02:48] <&The_Chief> well I figured it was a courtesy to let us know you were retaliating
[02:48] <&The_Chief> not preemption
[02:48] <&Caliph> there are 2 STA on MM
01[02:48] <pezstar> I just explained what it was. If you call defending our nation aggression, I'd suggest that you purchase a dictionary. That said, you can call it whatever you'd like.
[02:48] <~EmperorMarx> See
[02:48] <~EmperorMarx> while
01[02:49] <pezstar> Of course there are. He said he was going to attack our nation. It would be stupid of us to let him do it full force.
[02:49] <~EmperorMarx> This "faux protection" thing is highly debatable
[02:49] <~EmperorMarx> You went way over your bounds
[02:49] <&Citizenkane> It's an attack.
[02:49] <~EmperorMarx> and abused my willingness
[02:49] <&Citizenkane> An attack, is an attack, is an attack.
[02:49] <&Citizenkane> I see 2 STA attacking \m/.
[02:49] <~EmperorMarx> to keep you from being pummeled
[02:49] <~EmperorMarx> to continue pushing \m/
01[02:49] <pezstar> In addition, if you are going to call me in here with your friends, I'd like to bring a few of mine. I will not be outnumbered.
[02:49] <&The_Chief> go for it
[02:50] <&Caliph> that is fiar
[02:50] <&Caliph> *fair
[02:50] <~EmperorMarx> Here's what we want. And I feel this is beyond fair
[02:50] <~EmperorMarx> because after what RoK did to NSO, I am being extremely "nice" considering the alternative:
[02:51] <~EmperorMarx> Reparations for your attacks on Merrie Melodies
[02:51] <~EmperorMarx> And
[02:51] <&Citizenkane> at the end of the day STA has been the agressor in this
[02:51] <&Citizenkane> I see 2 open wars from STA to \m/.
[02:51] <~EmperorMarx> immediate peace with MM
[02:51] <~EmperorMarx> The two nations
[02:52] <~EmperorMarx> Who attacked him will be dealt with
04[02:52] <&Citizenkane> incidentally, pezstar
[02:52] <~EmperorMarx> Whether or not they are ZI'd really depends on your attitude in here
[02:52] <&Citizenkane> any further attacks from STA on \m/ nations will be considered an act of war
03[02:52] * Penguin  has joined #WestSideConnection
[02:52] <Penguin> <_<
[02:53] <Penguin> >_>
[02:53] <&Citizenkane> rofl
[02:53] <&Citizenkane> this is going to be fun.
[02:53] <Penguin> Jets?
[02:53] <&Caliph> hi Penguin
[02:53] <Penguin> Sharks?
[02:53] <Penguin> Hi Caliph
[02:53] <&Citizenkane> ok shutup
[02:53] <&Citizenkane> Here's why we're here
01[02:53] <pezstar> No
[02:53] <&Citizenkane> 2 STA nations have declared war on \m/.
01[02:53] <pezstar> We are not discussing anything until my allies are here.
[02:53] <&Caliph> we're here now because of the 2 STA nations on MM
[02:53] <Penguin> I thought The Chief said he was no longer a member?
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> See
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> you attacked him
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> before he could even resign
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> and he decided not to leave afterall
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> So he is in fact still a member
[02:54] <~EmperorMarx> And was a member when you attacked him.
03[02:54] * Regolith[STA]  has joined #WestSideConnection
03[02:55] * Mykep has joined #WestSideConnection
[02:55] <Penguin> So "he's left" should read "he will leave" correct?
[02:55] <&Caliph> STA hit him while he was a member of \m/
[02:55] <&Caliph> that is the bottom line
[02:55] <&Citizenkane> This is just bullshit details Pengiun, he was on the AA at the time of the attacks
01[02:56] <pezstar> Regardless, you told us he was gone, so we hit him.
01[02:56] <pezstar> You can call it bullshit all you want.
[02:56] <~EmperorMarx> Chief Savage Man is merely the Minister of Foreign Affairs for \m/. He assumed Merrie had left
[02:56] <~EmperorMarx> when he hadn't.
03[02:56] * Josshill[PC] has joined #WestSideConnection
01[02:56] <pezstar> Too bad. A member of your government told us he had.
[02:56] <~EmperorMarx> No
01[02:56] <pezstar> That's your mistake. Not ours.
04[02:56] <&Citizenkane> pezstar, the guy was on the \m/ AA at the time
[02:56] <&Citizenkane> by default \m/ protects the AA \m/
[02:56] <~EmperorMarx> It's too bad for you. Because he's still a member. And you've attacked our member, and by extension
[02:56] <~EmperorMarx> us.
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> Now
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> I'm pretty reasonable.
[02:57] <&Citizenkane> oh btw
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> I've handled rogue attacks on our AA before
[02:57] <&Citizenkane> can we all tag our alliances please ?
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> Most notably
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> FAR.
[02:57] <Regolith[STA]> You protect even those ghosting your AA?
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> And they got off extremely light
03[02:57] * Citizenkane is now known as Citizenkane[PC]
03[02:57] * Mykep is now known as Mykep[Rok]
04[02:57] <&Citizenkane[PC]> EmperorMarx,  Caliph  The_Chief Penguin  pezstar
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> Regolith[STA], Merrie hadn't even resigned fromthe alliance
[02:57] <&Citizenkane[PC]> tag up please
03[02:57] * Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]  has joined #WestSideConnection
[02:57] <~EmperorMarx> when your nations attacked him.
[02:57] <Penguin> I don't own a tag
[02:58] <&Caliph> IRC doesn't like the slashes
[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> haha
[02:58] <Penguin> but I'll stay quiet
03[02:58] * The_Chief is now known as The_Chief|m
[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> just do [m] then
[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> or something
[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> ta
03[02:58] * Caliph is now known as Caliph[m]
03[02:58] * Millencolin is now known as Millencolin[m]
04[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> Penguin,  pezstar
[02:58] <&Citizenkane[PC]> tag up
04[02:58] <Regolith[STA]> As pez said, one of your government has said he has left, and we took his word.
[02:58] <&Caliph[m]> you should have looked at his AA
[02:58] <&Caliph[m]> and once his AA changed, you should've attacked then
[02:58] <&Caliph[m]> not while he was on our AA
03[02:59] * THD has joined #WestSideConnection
[02:59] <THD> :O
[02:59] <&Citizenkane[PC]> thd tag up please
03[02:59] * THD  has left #WestSideConnection
[02:59] <&The_Chief|m> um
[02:59] <&The_Chief|m> right
03[02:59] * EmperorMarx sets mode: +b *!THD
[02:59] <~EmperorMarx> he's GO
[02:59] <~EmperorMarx> doesn't need to be here.
[03:00] <&Caliph[m]> so
[03:00] <&Caliph[m]> the situation is this
[03:00] <~EmperorMarx> Regolith[STA], you realize that wasn't for Chief to decide.
[03:00] <&Caliph[m]> STA declared war on an \m/ nation
[03:00] <&Caliph[m]> we want reps
01[03:00] <pezstar> No.
03[03:00] * Sakura  has joined #WestSideConnection
03[03:00] * Epiphanus  has joined #WestSideConnection
[03:00] <~EmperorMarx> He overstepped his authority, but I can understand why.
[03:01] <&Citizenkane[PC]> Sakura,  Epiphanus  tag up please
[03:01] <~EmperorMarx> Merrie said he wanted to leave to go rogue
01[03:01] <pezstar> Epiph is MK. He's with me.
03[03:01] * Sakura is now known as Sakura[PC]
03[03:01] * Imperaway  has joined #WestSideConnection
[03:01] <Epiphanus> I'm MK gov
[03:01] <~EmperorMarx> But since he never did, and since you attacked him before he even had a chance to resign then you attacked a member of \m/
[03:01] <Imperaway> I'm with Epiphanus
[03:01] <~EmperorMarx> In fact
[03:01] <&The_Chief|m> I was assuming that STA was simply informing us of their retaliation
[03:01] <&Caliph[m]> tag up please Imp
01[03:01] <pezstar> Well, one of your gov members said he had left. Literally told us he had left.
[03:01] <&The_Chief|m> which is a common courtesy
[03:01] <Sakura[PC]> Did I miss much?
[03:01] <Imperaway> Sorry Caliph[m]
[03:01] <~EmperorMarx> you attacked a government member of \m/. Granted his position is relatively minor
01[03:01] <pezstar> Imp is also MK.
[03:02] <~EmperorMarx> the principle is there
03[03:02] * Imperaway is now known as Imperator[MK]
[03:02] <Imperator[MK]> I hate this nick
01[03:02] <pezstar> You can keep saying it over and over.
[03:02] <&Caliph[m]> thanks, tags make it easier to tell whose who
01[03:02] <pezstar> It's not going to change the fact that a trium of the alliance told us he had left.
[03:02] <&Caliph[m]> no
[03:02] <&Caliph[m]> no trium told you he left
[03:02] <~EmperorMarx> Chief Savage Man is not a Triumvir.
[03:02] <@Millencolin[m]> MoFA =/= Trium
[03:02] <~EmperorMarx> And I know I didn't tell you he left.
[03:02] <&Caliph[m]> the tris are Em, Gerald, and myself
[03:02] <&Caliph[m]> and I never told you that
[03:02] <Imperator[MK]> Well, a MoFA's word should surely be trusted?
[03:02] <&The_Chief|m> I haven't been a triumvir in four months
01[03:03] <pezstar> My bad. He can still speak for \m/
01[03:03] <pezstar> I apologize for not being up to date on your government positions.
[03:03] <Regolith[STA]> The_Chief, why did you tell us MM resigned?
03[03:03] * EmperorMarx sets mode: +aoo Penguin pezstar Epiphanus
[03:03] <&Citizenkane[PC]> Listen, it boils down to this.
03[03:04] * EmperorMarx sets mode: +ao Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri] Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]
[03:04] <&Citizenkane[PC]> nations on the \m/ affiliation are being attacked by the STA affilation
[03:04] <&Citizenkane[PC]> these attacks are unauthorised
[03:04] <&Citizenkane[PC]> regardless of whether or not they were members
[03:04] <&Citizenkane[PC]> you need to get perimssion to attack someones AA
[03:04] <&Citizenkane[PC]> I have no seen anything or anyone suggesting otherwise
[03:04] <~EmperorMarx> But the fact is that MM was still and is still a member of \m/.
[03:04] <Imperator[MK]> Which they had from \m/'s MoFA.
01[03:05] <@pezstar> We do not need permission to protect our member.
[03:05] <~EmperorMarx> That isn't his decision to make.
[03:05] <&The_Chief|m> what member
[03:05] <Regolith[STA]> boomhower
[03:05] <&Caliph[m]> you're member was not attacked by MM
[03:05] <@Epiphanus> The AA is irrelevant if they were told by a member of gov that MM wasn't in m anymore
[03:05] <Imperator[MK]> The fact remains that he did make that decision.
01[03:05] <@pezstar> The_Chief can speak on behalf of \m/.
[03:05] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> That AA is always relevant
[03:05] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> *The
[03:05] <&Citizenkane[PC]> the AA is relevant
[03:05] <&Caliph[m]> you should've waited until he dropped AA
[03:06] <&Caliph[m]> the fact you didn't means you attaked \m/
[03:06] <@Epiphanus> AA isn't relevant, at that point, he was a ghost of M
[03:06] <~EmperorMarx> He lacks the authority to do so, Imperator[MK].
[03:06] <~EmperorMarx> Which means his word on that matter carries no weight.
01[03:06] <@pezstar> Who lacks the authority to do so?
[03:06] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> Epiphanus, you don't get to decide who is a ghost of \m/
01[03:06] <@pezstar> He has the authority to speak on behalf of \m/.
01[03:06] <@pezstar> Are you saying that he doesn't?
[03:06] <~EmperorMarx> He had no authority to authorize any hit on anyone on our affiliation
[03:06] <@Millencolin[m]> Everyone but the triu\m/vir has no authority to speak on behalf of \m/
[03:06] <@Epiphanus> If a member of M gov says he isn't a member of M
[03:06] <@Epiphanus> he is effectively a ghost
[03:06] <~EmperorMarx> That is reserved for myself, Cal, Gerald and our IA minister
01[03:07] <@pezstar> [02:06] <The_Chief> but anyway the only people who can be considered as official envoys of \m/ are an ambassador, myself and the triumvirate
[03:07] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> again, not your call Epiphanus
01[03:07] <@pezstar> He told me he did.
[03:07] <@Epiphanus> I didn't make that call.
[03:07] <@Epiphanus> The member of gov did.
[03:07] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> did Chief say he was a ghost?
[03:07] <&The_Chief|m> that was with regards to the FnKa situation
[03:07] <&The_Chief|m> not to MM's departure
[03:07] <Imperator[MK]> And yet he did, EmperorMarx. So now everyone has to make sure that your government are talking from a point of authority? Don't you find that awfully backwards?
[03:07] <Regolith[STA]> Chief said MM left the AA.
[03:07] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> I have been told many times that someone has left this alliance, but it's never true until AAs are dropped.
01[03:07] <@pezstar> It's really not STA's problem if a member of your government tells us things he isn't authorized to tell us and we act on it.
[03:07] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> People change minds all the time.
01[03:07] <@pezstar> We protected our member. We're not paying reps for it.
04[03:08] <&Caliph[m]> pezstar the problem is you didn't wait until he actually left
[03:08] <&Caliph[m]> and instead hit him while he was on our AA
[03:08] <&Caliph[m]> and thus under our protection
[03:08] <Regolith[STA]> He threatened to attack on of our members.
01[03:08] <@pezstar> Well, you're just going to have to get over that.
[03:08] <~EmperorMarx> It's stated in the charter that the Government Officials of \m/ may only make official statements in regards to their positions within the alliance. The MoFA is not entrusted with the ability to ghost bust our AA
01[03:08] <@pezstar> Because we weren't going to wait for him to hurt our member.
[03:08] <~EmperorMarx> So
04[03:09] <&Caliph[m]> pezstar MM never hit STA
[03:09] <@Millencolin[m]> threats aren't actions.
01[03:09] <@pezstar> I don't care what your charter says.
01[03:09] <@pezstar> I care what your government told me in a query.
[03:09] <Sakura[PC]> I'm going to have to concur with Millencolin[m], threats != actions.  
[03:09] <Imperator[MK]> Do You read charters before you go to speak with another alliance, or do you trust that the government is telling you the truth?
01[03:09] <@pezstar> We protected our member.
[03:09] <Regolith[STA]> If someone threatened on of your members, I highly doubt you would just sit back and watch until he is attacked.
04[03:09] <&Caliph[m]> you did no such thing pezstar
[03:09] <~EmperorMarx> But you should care. because that charter lists what he's responsible for doing.
[03:09] <Sakura[PC]> From a threat?
04[03:09] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> pezstar, after spending so much time recently railing against what you perceive as acts contrived to spark a war, your rhetoric here certainly suggests you are looking for one
[03:09] <@Epiphanus> If your government has acted beyond their limitations it isn't STA's fault.
[03:09] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> can I suggest every takes a step back?
[03:09] <~EmperorMarx> And ghostbusting or member ejections sure aren't in his job description
[03:09] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> and is mindful of their tone
04[03:09] <&The_Chief|m> 03:10   Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]   pezstar, after spending so much time recently railing against what you perceive as acts contrived to spark a war, your rhetoric here certainly suggests you are looking for one
04[03:10] <&Caliph[m]> pezstar you attacked a member of \m/ who had not attaked STA
[03:10] <&Caliph[m]> which has nothign to do with protecting an STA member
01[03:10] <@pezstar> You can repeat the same things over and over again if it makes you feel better. I can repeat the same answers if you'd like.
[03:10] <Imperator[MK]> That's not a problem, since a member of Your government, whether authorised or not, had given permission. It's not on behalf of STA to make sure that your MoFA stays within his powers, as proscribed by your chtarter.
04[03:10] <&Caliph[m]> the difference is the facts are on my side, pezstar
[03:11] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> So, I have a question
[03:11] <~EmperorMarx> Of course it's not their duty, Imperator[MK]. But I'm overruling his decision because it oversteps his bounds.
[03:11] <Imperator[MK]> The facts are clear to everyone, Caliph[m]. It's the interpretation that we disagree about.
01[03:11] <@pezstar> Actually, they're not. What with the logs of your MoFA telling us he wasn't in your alliance anymore.
[03:11] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> We know \m/ is requesting reps... what is STA's proposal?
[03:11] <@Epiphanus> caliph, your gov told STA he wasn't in M.  There isn't anything to argue past that point.
[03:11] <Imperator[MK]> EmperorMarx if you overrule his decision, you can't hold STA liable for their decision. They acted to the best of their knowledge.
[03:11] <Sakura[PC]> Epiphanus, who's the most minor gov in your alliance?  
[03:11] <Regolith[STA]> I'm still wondering what led Chief into believing the MM left.
[03:11] <Imperator[MK]> Barons are.
01[03:12] <@pezstar> Our proposal is that we attack Merrie Melodies until he is out of Boomhower's range. Then he can go free, and he won't have to pay us reps.
[03:12] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> well, there's some room for movement there
[03:12] <@Epiphanus> Barons.  And if a baron told someone that a member wasn't a member, even archon would respect that.  (even if it was a mistake)
[03:12] <@Epiphanus> we wouldn't be threatening someone over a mistake.
[03:12] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> what about peacing out until he drops the AA (and I am just talking)
[03:12] <Imperator[MK]> Especially not a mistake done by us
[03:13] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> I have only seen threats from one side Epiphanus, and it's not \m/
[03:13] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> check that, i havent really seen threats from anyone
[03:13] <Imperator[MK]> Well, now we're getting down to constructive things. Kev_McD, it's good that we have come to that.
04[03:13] <&Citizenkane[PC]> pezstar, can you confirm this: STA declared protection of GGA to spite \m/
01[03:13] <@pezstar> No.
01[03:13] <@pezstar> We didn't.
[03:13] <&Citizenkane[PC]> I call bullshit on that
[03:13] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> please CK, that's not helping
[03:13] <@Millencolin[m]> What were your reasons then?
[03:13] <&Penguin> How is that relevant anyway?
[03:13] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> ^
[03:13] <Imperator[MK]> CK that's not really relevant to the discussion.
[03:13] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> Let's keep the point at hand
01[03:13] <@pezstar> We protected them for the exact reasons stated in the post. It bothered us. We'd have done it regardless of the alliance doing it.
[03:14] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> So, to the matter at hand
01[03:14] <@pezstar> I believe that the MK folks in here can attest to the shitstorm we stirred up over the red raiding safari.
[03:14] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> both sides aren't that far apart
[03:14] <&Caliph[m]> it bothred you that a ~50k NS alliance was  being raided
[03:14] <&Caliph[m]> who as all of 5 members?
04[03:14] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> pezstar, comments on my proposal, which obviously carries no weight other than i want us to talk
[03:14] <Imperator[MK]> Caliph, please. The matter at hand.
[03:14] <&Caliph[m]> not even an alliance all standards as GGA disbanded
[03:15] <&Caliph[m]> right, the issue at hand
[03:15] <&The_Chief|m> The GGA thing is a moot point.
04[03:15] <&Caliph[m]> [00:12] <@pezstar> Our proposal is that we attack Merrie Melodies until he is out of Boomhower's range. Then he can go free, and he won't have to pay us reps.
[03:15] <&Caliph[m]> MM is not paying you reps
[03:15] <&The_Chief|m> um
01[03:15] <@pezstar> We're not paying reps.
[03:15] <&Caliph[m]> you attacked a member of our AA
[03:15] <&Caliph[m]> why shouldn't you pay reps/
[03:16] <@Epiphanus> caliph, really?
01[03:16] <@pezstar> We've already explained all of that. I suggest you read backscroll if you are confused.
[03:16] <Sakura[PC]> I have to ask though...
[03:16] <&Caliph[m]> Your reasoning for attacking MM was that it was "in defense of an STA nation"
[03:16] <Sakura[PC]> What were the "threats" that MM was making?
[03:16] <&Caliph[m]> but I see no agressive wars from MM to STA
[03:17] <Sakura[PC]> And why did it justify an attack against MM by STA?
01[03:17] <@pezstar> [02:02] <pezstar> You do what you need to do. A tech raid on a nation is not a "rogue" attack. It's a tech raid.
01[03:17] <@pezstar> [02:03] <Merrie_Melodies> When I nuke boomhower I am sure it will fit rogue
[03:17] <@Millencolin[m]> Key word is when
03[03:17] * Roquentin  has joined #WestSideConnection
[03:17] <@Millencolin[m]> Until he actually takes action
[03:17] <&Caliph[m]> did MM say that before or after STA hit him?
03[03:17] * Roquentin is now known as Roquentin|Umbrella
01[03:17] <@pezstar> Before.
[03:17] <@Millencolin[m]> Before, I believe.
[03:17] <Sakura[PC]> I'm inclined to agree with Millencolin[m] there.  
01[03:17] <@pezstar> We attacked in response.
[03:17] <Sakura[PC]> To a statement?  
[03:18] <Josshill[PC]> I agree with Millencolin[m] Too.
[03:18] <Josshill[PC]> It had not happend yet
[03:18] <&Caliph[m]> youre statement regarding protecting GGA was against further DOW's on their nations
[03:18] <Sakura[PC]> I've seen much more inflammatory ones in my own alliance's channels.  
[03:18] <@Millencolin[m]> Until action is taken in any form
[03:18] <@Millencolin[m]> It's merely posturing and hyperbole.
[03:18] <Josshill[PC]> All you guys are doing is a premptive strike, Are we all going to play by the precedent set by TOP in the previous war?
01[03:19] <@pezstar> It's not the same because C&G never threatened TOP. Nice try, though.
[03:19] <&Caliph[m]> \m/ never threatened STA
[03:19] <&The_Chief|m> Let's take a look at the times of the wars here
[03:19] <&Caliph[m]> in fact STA's recent statement was specifically against \m/
[03:19] <&The_Chief|m> on my logs here I told you at 2:08 EST that MM had left the alliance
[03:19] <Josshill[PC]> \m/ didnt threaten STA, but I was in another channel threatening to go rouge on someone today >.> Roll me please.
[03:19] <&The_Chief|m> CN lists the wars as having happened at 1:07 and 1:08 CST
01[03:20] <@pezstar> Look, I'm really not sure what you're going to get out of this. I'm not sitting here rehashing old wars. We've already told you why we attacked him, showed you the logs of your MoFA confirming that he was no longer a member and told you that we're not paying reps for it.
[03:20] <Regolith[STA]> Time zones...
[03:20] <&Caliph[m]> this isn't an old war
[03:20] <&The_Chief|m> I know that
[03:20] <&The_Chief|m> but still
[03:20] <&Caliph[m]> this war happened this update
[03:20] <Josshill[PC]> You guys dont like to follow precedents as you started before
[03:20] <&The_Chief|m> 2:07-2:08
[03:20] <Josshill[PC]> but you just followed a precedent set by TOP
[03:20] <&The_Chief|m> I don't believe you waited for my confirmation at all to attack MM
[03:20] <~EmperorMarx> Even so Regolith[STA], you declared war before Chief even said it'd be okay
[03:20] <&Penguin> What time does your clock read now, The Chief?
[03:20] <Roquentin|Umbrella> did porky resign to go rogue or not?
[03:20] <&The_Chief|m> 3:21 am
[03:21] <Imperator[MK]> The difference is that TOP never asked for permission to strike CnG; STA did ask for permission to strike MM. There you have why that old war is not relevant.
[03:21] <Sakura[PC]> So pretty much at the exact same time you "confirmed" with CSM....
01[03:21] <@pezstar> So you can sit here and talk about why you think we're wrong all you want, but we're not going to change our minds just because you feel like claiming The_Chief didn't have the authority to say he resigned.
[03:21] <&Caliph[m]> no Imperator[MK]
[03:21] <&Caliph[m]> STA never asked permision
[03:21] <@Millencolin[m]> Roquentin|Umbrella: He did not resign from \m/ Gov
[03:21] <&Caliph[m]> they told us they were hitting MM
[03:21] <&Caliph[m]> they didn't ask
01[03:21] <@pezstar> Yes. The moment I confirmed, I said to hit. Folks had their fingers on the buttons.
[03:21] <Sakura[PC]> To me...
01[03:21] <@pezstar> No. We don't need permission to protect our nation from a rogue.
04[03:21] <&The_Chief|m> I don't believe you pezstar
[03:21] <&The_Chief|m> sorry
[03:21] <~EmperorMarx> a minute before confirmation was given?
[03:21] <Imperator[MK]> Caliph[m], that's not what was said earlier in the logs.
[03:21] <Sakura[PC]> It looks like it could all be eaten up in clock delay.
[03:22] <Sakura[PC]> So...
04[03:22] <Josshill[PC]> <@pezstar> No. We don't need permission to protect our nation from a rogue.
04[03:22] <Josshill[PC]> Pezstar under \m/s treaty it was also there nation :P
01[03:22] <@pezstar> I don't really care if you don't believe me. Both me and my alliance have a long history of honesty and integrity.
[03:22] <Sakura[PC]> Rogues are defined as "stating that they have intent to 'one day' nuke <blank>"?
01[03:22] <@pezstar> I don't care. Your MoFA said he wasn't in the alliance anymore.
[03:22] <@Epiphanus> The logs are obvious that chief said MM was no longer a member.  So how fast after that fact he was attacked is irrelevant.
[03:22] <~EmperorMarx> Sure he did. But you didn't wait for him to say that
[03:22] <&Penguin> Sure they did...
01[03:23] <@pezstar> Yes. I did.
[03:23] <~EmperorMarx> I disagree.
04[03:23] <Josshill[PC]> Pezstar if I was to see, that I want to nuke you so bad. Would you attack Poison Clan?
[03:23] <Josshill[PC]> Well let me restate that
[03:23] <~EmperorMarx> They attacked MM before Chief could say he wasn't a member
[03:23] <Josshill[PC]> That I will nuke you one day.
[03:23] <~EmperorMarx> They acted without permission.
[03:23] <&Penguin> It's a clock issue, The Chief's is somewhere between 30 seconds and a minute faster than CN's
01[03:23] <@pezstar> There's a difference between you saying that you want to nuke me and you saying that you're going to go rogue and do so.
[03:23] <&Caliph[m]> theres a difference between saying you want to go rogue and actually going rogue
[03:23] <Josshill[PC]> Thats what he said.
01[03:23] <@pezstar> And then me asking a member of your government if you are in the alliance, and being told no.
[03:23] <Josshill[PC]> Exactly.
[03:24] <Josshill[PC]> And you just said that
[03:24] <@Epiphanus> If it was a difference of even a few minutes, your point would be arguable.   But to say that the attacks happened before due to someone's time stamps is ridiculous.
03[03:24] * Biazt[GOONS]  has joined #WestSideConnection
[03:24] <@Epiphanus> It's trying to grasp onto the last bit of ledge possible
[03:25] <Sakura[PC]> What I take issue with most here...
[03:25] <Sakura[PC]> Is that STA is responding to *words*, with *actions*.  
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> Exactly
[03:25] <Sakura[PC]> Which is *exactly* what TOP did last war.  
04[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> and Pezstar
01[03:25] <@pezstar> You've said what you take issue with. I've told you our position.
04[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> <@pezstar> There's a difference between you saying that you want to nuke me and you saying that you're going to go rogue and do so.
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> Thats all merry melodies did
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> Was say something
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> Much like I did
01[03:25] <@pezstar> We're not paying you reps.
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> And you stated there
01[03:25] <@pezstar> I'm not discussing the same points over and over again.
[03:25] <Josshill[PC]> that words mean nothing
[03:26] <Sakura[PC]> MK had a long long long history of 'trolling' (everyone, really), TOP, and TOP decided to rise to the "opportunity".  
[03:26] <Josshill[PC]> Because we're right
01[03:26] <@pezstar> If you have questions about something specific, read the backscroll.
[03:26] <&Caliph[m]> i have a question about something specific
[03:26] <~EmperorMarx> Alright. Then how about this
[03:26] <~EmperorMarx> After Caliph asks his q of course
[03:26] <&Caliph[m]> eh, nevermind
[03:26] <~EmperorMarx> Heh
[03:26] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> anyway, those who need to know from both parties are aware of a proposition on the table, may i suggest everyone relaxes until it's been agreed/disagreed
[03:27] <Josshill[PC]> Kev can you please restate this Proposition?
[03:27] <~EmperorMarx> Alright. How about STA peaces out with Merrie. And just like that the situation is handled. Done.
[03:27] <~EmperorMarx> Merrie won't be attacking
[03:27] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> no, Josshill[PC]
[03:27] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> but EM can
[03:27] <~EmperorMarx> And if for some god awful reason that he does, then you can have him.
[03:27] <~EmperorMarx> But as it stands now he hasn't aggressively attacked STA.
[03:27] <Josshill[PC]> STA has breached the soveriegnty of \m/ by attacking though.
[03:28] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> Josshill[PC], please
01[03:28] <@pezstar> Sure. We can do that. We're not saying we did anything wrong or anything of the sort, though.
[03:28] <~EmperorMarx> I wouldn't expect you to either.
01[03:29] <@pezstar> But if he is going to remain on your AA, then he isn't a rogue.
[03:29] <&Caliph[m]> he has yet to do any rogue actions
[03:29] <&The_Chief|m> Forced apologies are bullshit, we all know this.
[03:29] <&Caliph[m]> if he remains on our AA that is his choice
[03:29] <&Caliph[m]> he didn't attack STA, STA attacked him
[03:29] <&Caliph[m]> if he did attack STA it would be a different situation
[03:30] <~EmperorMarx> Right.
[03:30] <&Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]> That sounds like an agreement... STA peaces and we all go on our merry way, pun intended.
01[03:30] <@pezstar> So we're going to peace it out then?
[03:30] <&Penguin> So if he does go rogue, STA will be clear to counter immediately I presume?
[03:30] <&The_Chief|m> of course
[03:30] <~EmperorMarx> Yes.
[03:30] <&The_Chief|m> every alliance has the right to defend their members when they are attacked
[03:30] <&The_Chief|m> we would do the same
[03:30] <&Caliph[m]> if MM goes rogue STA can counter without retaliation from \m/
[03:31] <&Caliph[m]> and by rogue i mean actually DOW'ing an STA nation
[03:31] <&Caliph[m]> i don't mean talking shit
[03:31] <&Penguin> Seems fair to me.
[03:32] <~EmperorMarx> yes because if we all declared on people for threats alone I can only imagine how much quicker NSO would have been attacked :P
[03:32] <&The_Chief|m> I'm pretty sure RV has every \m/ person itc on his rogue list
[03:32] <Sakura[PC]> lol.  So true.  
[03:32] <Josshill[PC]> and how much easier it would be to start a war :P
[03:32] <@Millencolin[m]> or us for that matter
[03:32] <@Millencolin[m]> I know M6 Redneck would have gotten schooled
03[03:33] * The_Chief  has joined #WestSideConnection
03[03:33] * ChanServ sets mode: +oa The_Chief The_Chief
[03:33] <&The_Chief> shit
[03:33] <&The_Chief> well I can't ghost the other one since it isn't registered
[03:33] <&The_Chief> so here I am
02[03:36] * &Kev_McD[Goauld|Tri]  Quit (Ping timeout)
[03:36] <~EmperorMarx> Alright so we're all agreed. So we're all done here.
[03:36] <&The_Chief> saved me a week from hell
[03:36] <&The_Chief> moving into college
[03:36] <&The_Chief> have a good one everybody
03[03:36] * Sakura[PC] is now known as Sakura
03[03:37] * &The_Chief  has left #WestSideConnection
[03:37] <&Penguin> Ooh have fun with that
[03:37] <~EmperorMarx> Despite the...tone and all that, I appreciate everyone coming here to bring this to a peaceful close.
[03:37] <&Penguin> ah too late
03[03:37] * Citizenkane[PC] is now known as Citizenkane
[03:37] <~EmperorMarx> I'll pass it on :V
[03:37] <&Penguin> I appreciate it
03[03:37] * Millencolin[m] is now known as Millencolin
03[03:37] * Mykep[Rok] is now known as Mykep
02[03:37] * &The_Chief|m  Quit (Quit: ajax IRC Client)
03[03:38] * @Epiphanus  has left #WestSideConnection
03[03:38] * Mykep  has left #WestSideConnection
03[03:38] * EmperorMarx sets mode: +mc
[03:38] <~EmperorMarx> derp
[03:38] <&Citizenkane> DERP
03[03:39] * EmperorMarx is now known as EM|Away
03[03:39] * @Millencolin  has left #WestSideConnection
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 07:36:08 AM by pezstar »

Offline Lakerzz8

  • The greatest trick the devil ever pulled...
  • Alpha Tiger
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  • Posts: 2735
  • ...was convincing the world he didn't exist.
Re: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 07:05:23 AM »
Thanks for sharing logs with everyone.
STA honours:

Other Awards:

Military Development Banners:

[21:53] <Perditio> So far so good, I'm still in.
[21:53] <Tygaland> me too, I have been waiting to go pee

Offline Fallen_Fool

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Re: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 09:06:38 AM »
Looks like good times.
<Tygaland|lunch> I prefer choc-chip cookies, the girl scouts are too fattening
<Penguin> You are supposed to eat the cookies, Tyga >_>
<Penguin> not the girls
<Tygaland|lunch> oh, my mistake
<Tygaland|lunch> no wonder they don't come by anymore

Offline Austin H

  • Former Member
  • Posts: 2187
Re: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 04:34:55 PM »
That was a headache, but thanks for sharing.
There are two kinds of people I cant stand. Those who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch.-Nigel Powers

Offline waycool

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Re: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 09:11:27 PM »
Wow that's an hour of your life gone forever Pez.  8-)

Offline Azaghul

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  • Posts: 46
Re: Discussion between STA, \m/ and allies of each side 8-17-2010
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 03:30:06 AM »
\m/ being stupid imagine that!   ::)

Maybe their MoFA should learn their charter.  It's not anyone's job to go confirming what gov members say about their alliance.